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The problem with the way kids are growing up today is showing up in our society. Today kids (and adults) spend their time staring at their phones! Getting in touch with someone isn't the in-personable act of talking to them on the phone....nooo, now it's texting! That way we don't even have to interact with them, just send a text! It never ceases to amaze me when ever we go out to dinner or breakfast these days I look around and everyone is staring at there phones! The other morning there was the perfect family, a father, mother, daughter and son, all sitting there at their booth and all four of them were staring at there little colored boxes.....none of them saying a word to each other, it was surreal!

Now days kids spend there time inside on video games, many of which are full of killing and are so real that I truly think it numbs them to the point that killing isn't so bad!

Just look at what's going on in our schools! Heck when I was growing up we used to take our shotguns to school so we could go duck hunting on the way home. I have a friend who even used to take his gun to school on the bus and on the way home the bus would drop him off at a near by lake, and he would hunt ducks on the way home, and no one shot anyone else, just because! That was Un-heard of!

When you listen to music that a lot of kids are listening to nowadays, it is unbelievable how they degrade women, talk of killing and swearing. Crazy!

What about movies? We went to a movie the other day and I wish I would have kept a body count! It was (besides Un-believable) Un-real how many people were killed by this one group, had to be at least three or four dozen! That seems to be quite normal in movies these days. And did you hear about the mother who is suing the local Little League because her son didn't make some particular team!

Not taking responsibility for ones self seems to be the norm these days, from kids up to government officials! It's always someone else's fault.

The world is indeed a very different place, there defiantly are good things and good people, but it seems that there are so many more bad than ever before........and thats sad!

It is a very different world!


On a good note


There is hope!



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Tom & Marcia


No offense meant, no offense taken.


Some time ago Professor Allen Dershowitz, Harvard University, prominent scholar on United States Constitutional Law (and self described Liberal Democrat) was asked his professional opinion regarding the U.S. use of torture and applicable laws. His response, and I paraphrase:


"Torture is a Relevant Term". Your little girl is kidnaped - the police capture the culprit, learn that he has buried her in a small box underground and she has less than 1 hour of air remaining before she suffocates. He refuses to divulge the location. To what end and by what means would you go to save your little girl."


Regrettably, torture is as old as time. Ask the retuning Vets from Vietnam, ask your uncles who retuned from the South Pacific during World War II. It is not something I condone, but is a fact of life.


I was disturbed initially by your post for several reasons:


1) Like some others in Costa Rica, I choose not to be exposed to International - American - and even Costa Rican News. (I didn't even know the Executive Order had been issued regarding Illegals for 7 to10 days after the fact). I recalled having heard about a investigation into the U.S. use of torture but did not pay attention to it. Why would my government acknowledge it's own wrong doings when it consistently criticizes others for the same actions.

2)Having read your Post and the disgust you had for the facts it revealed (I have not read or have any knowledge of the content) I wondered who commissioned this report - who investigated the facts - who authored the resulting findings. Was it conducted by a impartial jury ?.

3)Why, with all the information our government hides from it's people, CLASIFIED - NEED TO KNOW ONLY - TOP SECRET - etc. (best example: JFK assassination - records sealed for 75 years) why would they want THIS report released to the world. What is the UP-SIDE. What is to be gained, everyone has always known of our use of torture. Then I think, what is the Down Side of releasing this report ? Will there be MORE hatred toward Americans ? Will there be retaliation against Americans ? Will it result in additional deaths of Americans ?


Then while logging onto my computer yesterday I noticed one of the headlines on Yahoo "Senate Investigation/Report critical of".


So, it is not a impartial investigation and or report ? Is it conducted by one political party to make another political party look bad ?

Does it serve the needs of the people to publish this report ? Have they endangered American lives by playing their political games ? Unfortunately, in January we will see a change in the Senate to the other political party and can expect them to issue reports damning the other party. All this while SERVING THE NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE.


Current read: DISINFORMATION by Lt. Gen. Ion Mihai Pacepa (Former spy chief reveals secret strategies for undermining freedom, attacking religion, and promoting terrorism)


Pura Vida


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The "ticking bomb" or "little buried girl" is not a valid argument. There was none.


I repeat, "If there are exceptions to your core values, they are not core values."


Could even one of these people be innocent or have no information? If even one is, is it okay to torture him because you weren't sure?


You are either okay with it or you aren't. I'm not and it's because it's no better than what happens in the prisons of third world dictatorships.



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RiverRomper Post #20

The professor did not answer the question, he presented a scenario and asked what "you would do to save your little girl". At what point would you consider Torture ? As for me personally , I would use everything available to save my little granddaughter. If I failed, then he too would be DEAD !!

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I, too, am against torture. However, if someone were holding my husband hostage, and I knew 101% that if I were to torture said person and as a result of my torture I would learn of my husband's whereabouts and be able to rescue him, I wouldn't hesitate to torture, maim, or do whatever you can think of to that person. The same goes if someone were to take our dearly departed dog. Having said all of that, I don't watch R rated movies because of either the sexual content or the violence. Violence turns my stomach. I saw enough of it when I was a cop for 10 years. And as far as wanting to return to the 50s, no thank you. Women were expected to be barefoot and in the kitchen. Of course, there were exceptions. Thank heavens my mother was one of the exceptions. She worked and was very independent. I followed her example. To be dependent upon another person is, well, I can't say wrong because there are exceptions, but for the most part, it is not ideal. Many is the time I responded to a family fight, and the wife turned on us as we arrested her husband because she saw her bread and butter going out the door to jail. Yes, I agree the music kids listen to today is for the most part crap. I, too, am astonished at everyone sitting at the dinner table looking at their phones. And while I had a wonderful childhood, I also remember all the discrimination against girls and women that took place then. It still goes on, and not just against women. OK, I'll stop now. Thanks for letting me rant!

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I deleted my posts from this thread. I decided that this really isn't the proper medium for me to discuss this issue and I really shouldn't have contributed to this thread at all.

I understand completely. It's often the case that a position seems to make perfect sense until someone replies with a counter argument. As with most things in life, grey is the norm more often than black and white.


Out of respect for your decision not to discuss the topic I've also deleted my replies to your posts.

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