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A pipeline for the transport of oil/gas etc. is economically unworkable!! DC transmission line is the only way.

You need a fuel source if you are going to be transmitting DC electric, so you will still need pipelines.

 

Since the Mexican oil reserves are drying up, and the heavy oil in Venezuela needs a lot of processing, and generates little nat gas in its productions, it is very unlikely that a pipeline will be built all the way from there to the US.

Face it, the US in the future is going to be almost fully dependent on Canadian petro resources. The current oil/gas shale boom will probably dry up by 2020, it is just not sustainable. Either the Canadians will wise up and figure out they have the US by the nuts, or the US will have to turn the military to the north. But the Canadian tar sands are only expected to last to the 2030's anyway.

 

The US will either have to learn to ration its resources, or just do without. Since the US lives in Fantasy Land, it will probably end up doing the latter, which means that a whole lot of people will end up with the stinky end of the stick.

 

Or you can live someplace outside the US.....

 

Dana

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You need a fuel source if you are going to be transmitting DC electric, so you will still need pipelines.

 

Since the Mexican oil reserves are drying up, and the heavy oil in Venezuela needs a lot of processing, and generates little nat gas in its productions, it is very unlikely that a pipeline will be built all the way from there to the US.

Face it, the US in the future is going to be almost fully dependent on Canadian petro resources. The current oil/gas shale boom will probably dry up by 2020, it is just not sustainable. Either the Canadians will wise up and figure out they have the US by the nuts, or the US will have to turn the military to the north. But the Canadian tar sands are only expected to last to the 2030's anyway.

 

The US will either have to learn to ration its resources, or just do without. Since the US lives in Fantasy Land, it will probably end up doing the latter, which means that a whole lot of people will end up with the stinky end of the stick.

 

Or you can live someplace outside the US.....

 

Dana

 

Dana, I thought the US had many many years of natural gas reserves and was becoming the world's largest energy exporters which is reason many European companies were relocating to the US to take advantage of the lower cost of energy.

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Dana, I thought the US had many many years of natural gas reserves and was becoming the world's largest energy exporters which is reason many European companies were relocating to the US to take advantage of the lower cost of energy.

Just a quick FYI; Don't beleive everything you read in those prospectusus. And the US is NOT becoming an exporter. Check out the theoildrum.com for more info.

 

Sorry for being off topic, but energy costs DO affect the prices of lots of things, especially in the transport of various foods and other goods.

 

Dana

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one other thing - petroleum being transported through pipelines is very detrimental to the metal of the pipe - constant monitoring of the thickness of the pipe metal is necessary using "pigs", and pipes are constantly being dug up to repair the corrosión in them. With a DC line, you won't have these problems - also, each country along the DC line has the capability to draw power from, or inject power into the line!!

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Direct current electricity distribution won out over alternating current a century ago due to the high rate of loss of voltage in direct current transmission. In order to provide direct current service in an urban environment, for example, a substation would have been needed every few blocks and it would not have been cheap. Alternating current can be transmitted over much greater distances without an equivalent loss of voltage. Transmitting electricity by direct current over long distances would require a very large infrastructure investment.

 

What's more, underground electricity lines, while desirable for many reasons, are very, very expensive to both install and maintain. The right-of-way requirements would be essentially the same as for overhead lines but the excavation and encapsulation costs would be staggeringly higher than the relatively inexpensive overhead structures in common use.

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You are wrong on several counts - DC electric lines have been around for a very long time - back in the 60s the Bonneville power administration built a DC line from Oregon to Adelanto California to supply Los Angeles with power - I believe that this line is still being used - with the advent of solid state thyristors, DC power has come into a new age - for the transmission of power over long distances, DC is the only sensible alternative - we would still be using AC power just as before, but the long distance transfer of power should be DC - the losses become much less (surge impedance loading of the line), the ability to transmit DC through cables is superior where the longer the cable that uses AC increases the reactive loading to the point that the true power deliverance through the cable drops to zero (they supply an island in Denmark using a DC cable due to this loss). Also, the transmission distance becomes a problem if you are transmitting AC power farther than about 40 deg. of the wavelength (AC motors get out of sync. with the generator) AC transmission is a big problem in the engineering aspect, which is not present in DC lines! The big dam recently built in China uses DC transmission between it and Shanghái (built by Siemens of Germany) due to the efficiency of the DC transmission! The city of Shanghái of course still uses AC because the DC line uses a DC converter to change the DC to AC on the city end! In the US among several DC lines one of the largest connects the coal fired power plant in North Dakota with the Twin Cities área not to mention the several DC converter stations in the United States (Stegall Nebraska, Miles City Montana, Sidney Nebraska, one in Oregon, Adelanto California, one in New Mexico, and of course those converters needed at the generator and receiving endss of the DC transmission lines) - others also exist in the US but are too numerous to mention!! When I tell you that the preferrred method of transmitting energy from the states to Panama is DC transmission, I know what I'm talking about. Why? I spent 10 years of my life working at a DC converter station (Sidney Nebraska)

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By the way, Sidney Nebraska operates bck to back at 50,000 volts DC, 4140 amps DC, (200 megawatts) but was downrated from 300 Megawatts for the Sidney Project - it also has the land área and original building size to accomodate andother converter on it's nor side!! Check - Wikipedia for the Virginia Smith converter Station Respectfully

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I should add that the reason back to back converter stations exist in the US - two electric grids exist in the US - the problem of the transmission of AC power more than about .4 of a wavelength presents grave problems because the frequency/phase difference is not the same. Therefore, rather than build more power plants DC converters transfer the power across the boundaries, allowing the connection of the two grids, and allowing the generators to opérate nearer their full potential output - power can be transferred both directions (East to West/West to East) with the change in direction occuring within a few cycles -

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So newman have you seen any published reports that show the cost to transmit DC to LA is significantly cheaper than a pipeline?

 

Again, my thoughts are with a pipeline you can move many types of energy but with a DC line you can only move one. So, the financial case would need to be significantly big to embrace that limitation. An you have not addressed my concern that the US is fickle and cut you off if you did not do everything they want. Also, it seems like Mexico would want in on a pipeline to move their oil to market.

 

I thought the US had a huge reserve of natural gas that would make it financially viable to invest in a pipeline. My concern with a pipeline is what you see with the Russian one where people are sabotaging and tapping in to it. I wonder if you could couple natural gas delivery with a canal through Nicaragua to fuel tankers??

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If you buy or sell electricity. it is on a contractual basis - break the contract, you pay big time penalties - it has nothing to do with politics! energy is energy, no matter what form - what's the difference in transmitting 1000 megawatts or pumping a comodity that can generate 1000 megawatts?? the efficiency with which the movement of that energy is delivered is the key - in this respect DC transmission wins hands down, pipelines don't even come close to the efficiency and low cost of a DC line!!!!!!! As forvpublished reports, I'll leave that for you to research - the key being why even bother with a DC line in the first place if it's not econonomically advantageous!! I know what I'm talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I've made my case - enough information exists on the internet concerning this subject - search DC CONVERTER - DC POWER LINES - you can throw any other factors you want into the equation - the fact is - the only viable alternative for transporting energy from the states to Panam (and back) is via DC transmission!!!

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