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Tiffany,

 

Just a bit more on my feelings about use of a shock collar usage:

 

I think that the aversion therapy can be justiified if your animal, not obeying your commands, could result in an uhappy rusult during a life or death situation.

 

And as to whether that approach is justified or not just consider that even a mother animal will cuff her cubs (or pup, or kits, etc.) by way of teaching them what to do and not to do. (Those that do not learn or comply are far more likely to become eliminated from the gene pool.)

 

Just FWIW . . .

 

Paul M.

==

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No, Tiffany..they just don't pay any attention to them. Sorry to say, that they are not what I would called 'trained' in any real way and usually chase anything that moves. A few months ago a young monkey fell out of a tree near the back door, and all five lunged outside, with us following. Well, the mastiff held it with his teeth, few that he has, and I managed to get him to drop it, but I was loathe to pick it up with the dogs all around me, and it was bleeding near the mouth, in case it bit me. Hubby managed to grab and restrain Buster, the mastiff so I was left trying to keep 4 dogs away from it. We all moved slowly down the yard with a lot of barking going on, until the monkey climbed a tree at the fence line....and I presume it survived, OK.

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That's pretty impressive, a Mastiff catching a monkey! Gorgeous dogs, but not known for being particularly fleet of foot. Wow, Buster! I'm glad the monkey made it back to the trees. Tonka is coming along really well with "drop it" so far, considering he just hit 5 months of age, but "leave it" (don't approach something at all) is always a little more difficult. The good thing (well, not really good, but just in this context ...) is that we don't have our own yard, we're in an apartment, so whenever he's out, he's on the leash with me, or in a small fenced park with cut grass on our street with me, so the chances that he'll get something dangerous before he's very reliably trained are pretty small. (Knock wood)

 

Paul, yeah, a lot of people do share that opinion, and someone using it in a specific limited "danger" circumstance to protect the dog from extreme danger is obviously different than lazy, uninformed owners who just use it across the board as the chief method for getting their dog to do what they want. For me personally, I hope I never need to use that method. My opinion is actually based less on the "shock" itself, which as you said, is often mild enough to be not much more than a vibration, and more on the way the dog actually ends up learning/processing in his mind, and the effect that has. But I hear what you're saying, and lots of folks are in agreement with it.

I'm actually really interested to see how things will go with Tonka, as he will be my first puppy since I've (re)developed my training methods. Batman and Mason were rescues, as is Tonka, but they were rescued as adults ... Mason was probably 10 already and with a history of abuse. Batman was a genius, jaja, easy to train, and was pretty amazing. Mason required some serious patience and work, but I was really proud of and happy with the results for both of them. Tonka though, as a puppy, has a clean(er) slate -- though he did have some bad experiences as a little guy, during the important socialization time for puppies -- so I'm really interested to see what he can do.

 

Dog training has actually undergone a huge shift away from the old César Millan methods in recent years, and I find it fascinating, the whole field of animal behavior. Anyway, like I said, I could blather on about dogs for days, so I'll stop now. (I heard that collective sigh of relief, y'all ...)

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Thank you for that! Those larvae must be very tiny if they are the offspring of gnats. If that is the case I would think they might attract rather than repel predators...but in any case it is certainly fascinating, and an experiment could easily be designed to test opposing hypotheses. Lincoln Brower long ago tested the palatability of monarch caterpillars with jays and had very interesting results. This topic has been a lot of fun.

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The most interesting thing for me Mayanca, is that I had not suspected that this habit of congregating and moving together as a group, apparently for protection by looking like a larger or different organism, is much more commonly used by different species than I would have imagined.

 

Nature is so full of curiosities that it never ceases to intrugue.

 

Regards,

 

Paul M.

==

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Truly; Now I will have to watch the fruit fly larvae in my compost bucket to see if they escape as a swarming mass or as uncoordinated individuals.

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